Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Learning Japanese...
#1
I've often thought it would have been useful, if I had been taught Japanese as child......

How have

Halvsies who've learnt it as adults found it? And the written language looks a tall order for anyone

who's not a linguist? Have any adults mastered writing?

I found this site: <a

href='http://www.coolest.com/jpfm.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.coolest.com/jpfm.htm</a>

The

nuances and different possibilities of addressing people in the wrong tone or being too informal or formal....

just look like a minefield!
Reply
#2
<!--QuoteBegin-greenhorn+Apr 1 2005, 06:26 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%'

cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (greenhorn @ Apr 1 2005, 06:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td

id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I've often thought it would have been useful, if I had been taught Japanese

as child......

How have Halvsies who've learnt it as adults found it? And the written language looks

a tall order for anyone who's not a linguist? Have any adults mastered writing?

I found this site:

http://www.coolest.com/jpfm.htm

The

nuances and different possibilities of addressing people in the wrong tone or being too informal or formal....

just look like a minefield! [/quote]


interesting link greenhorn! [Image: smile.gif]
Reply
#3
I come

up with the weirdest mnemonic devices to remember Japanese.
I am seriously jealous of all of you who can

speak this language.
My goal is to leave her speaking Japanese [Image: smile.gif]
But existing is all I do.
Reply
#4
I

found it frustrating and difficult. The Jpnse don't know how to teach Nihongo to foreigners. Most schools

use the teacher-student, teacher-different student approach instead of student-student, student-student and then

go around correcting. It's more of a lecture instead of a practical use/practice as most conversational

English classes go...

Plus they <b>insist</b> on teaching very formal Jpnse that you will rarely, if

ever, use, thus you can't use colloquial forms, cause you don't know them!, with your friends and

acquaintances. The senseis would always say the same thing, "It's better to be polite than to use

words which are too informal." And I'd say it's better to learn forms we can use/hear more so that

our level of fluency will have a more upward swing....and then just use a desu or de gozaimasu, etc at the end

of colloquial forms when it isn't an informal conversation.

It's not as if most Jpnse aren't

going to not know a foreigner is speaking to them on the phone....or in public. [Image: rolleyes.gif]
"I fought Sugar Ray (Robinson) so many times, it's a wonder I don't have diabetes" -- Jake LaMotta



[Image: bybyetn.jpg]
Reply
#5
I feel bad when the asian kids from school say " you're so lucky you speak fluent

english" coz I dont. They just think that because of my accent. I have to explain to them that no, I dont

speak PERFECT english because i dont have great vocab and sometimes my grammar sucks (especially when I'm

writing) and I cant express myself the way I want to in ANY language so I feel like I'm cheating them.

Atleast these kids know their own language! I can have conversations with Japanese people and stuff but

sometimes I forget certain words or cant understand a particular word someone said so I have to end up asking

them!

HonestLY? I think the only way to learn a language is by living around the language from a

young age. I was lucky enough to spend a big part of my childhood in Japan going to Japanese public school so it

really didn't feel like learning.

Whenever my mom calls me over here in Australia (she still lives

in Dubai), I speak to her in english even though I speak to my Japanese girlfriends at school in Japanese!

Even though we spoke in Japanese back at home, my mother thinks that the only way I'd fully understand her

is if she spoke to me in my strongest language which is english.

I wish my Arabic was as good as my

Japanese so even if I can't speak fluent english or Japanese, I'd have an excuse coz I can say "

hey, what do ya expect? I HAVE TO JUGGLE AROUND THREE!"
I'm only here for this moment



Jeff Buckley - Everybody here wants you lyrics
Reply
#6
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3'

cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
I wish my Arabic was

as good as my Japanese so even if I can't speak fluent english or Japanese, I'd have an excuse coz I can

say " hey, what do ya expect? I HAVE TO JUGGLE AROUND THREE!"


[/quote]

I feel a bit the same,

since two months I sometimes feel like my English gets worse the more japanese I learn, and when I speak

English\German, it is hard to switch to japanese.. It always takes a few minutes.
Without halvsie.com,

my english would probably have become quite bad...

<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0'

align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td

id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
I found it frustrating and difficult. The Jpnse don't know how to teach

Nihongo to foreigners. Most schools use the teacher-student, teacher-different student approach instead of

student-student, student-student and then go around correcting. It's more of a lecture instead of a

practical use/practice as most conversational English classes go...
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div

class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

How long have you been learning japanese? Can you speak it a bit

fluently? I learn in a japanese language school too, which is quite okay so far.
The thing with the japanese

being bad teachers, I think that has a lot to do with the japanese way of thinking and their seemingly total

lack of skill to learn foreign languages. (Japan, the isle... the explanation for everything)
I still can`t

believe that they learn english in high school for 6 years and then aren`t even able to communicate in simple

sentences. If you see it that way, the japanese teachers aren`t only bad in teaching Nihongo to foreigners, they

are also bad in teaching english to japanese.
A bad japanese language school probably just teaches japanese

the same way like high school lessons.
"Once you figure out what a joke everything is, being the Comedian's the only thing that makes sense."
Reply
#7
[Image: laugh.gif] shimaguni dakara...

I'm studying

Japanese for 2.5 years now.

I had only japanese teachers so far, except one teacher, who was German. And

they did well. Of course there have to be Japanese schools who must be filled with teachers as qualified for

teaching Japanese as most of the Eikaiwa teachers are for teaching English. And it always depends on your own

effort anyways.

Personally I prefer being taught formal language cause the informal language is easier

to learn when you talk to friends, you don't need that to be explained to you in classes.

I'm

doing ok, I think. And I decided to start studying again, so I hope to make progress soon... cause I'm stuck

on my making bad sentences level...
魂の獄に封じられしモノたちが解き放たれた!
Reply
#8
<!--QuoteBegin-ucantbmyaddiction+Apr 21 2005, 07:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center'

width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ucantbmyaddiction @ Apr 21 2005, 07:28

AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I feel bad when the asian kids from school say "

you're so lucky you speak fluent english" coz I dont. They just think that because of my accent. I have

to explain to them that no, I dont speak PERFECT english because i dont have great vocab and sometimes my

grammar sucks (especially when I'm writing) and I cant express myself the way I want to in ANY language so I

feel like I'm cheating them. Atleast these kids know their own language! I can have conversations with

Japanese people and stuff but sometimes I forget certain words or cant understand a particular word someone said

so I have to end up asking them!

HonestLY? I think the only way to learn a language is by living

around the language from a young age. I was lucky enough to spend a big part of my childhood in Japan going to

Japanese public school so it really didn't feel like learning.

Whenever my mom calls me over here in

Australia (she still lives in Dubai), I speak to her in english even though I speak to my Japanese girlfriends

at school in Japanese! Even though we spoke in Japanese back at home, my mother thinks that the only way

I'd fully understand her is if she spoke to me in my strongest language which is english.

I wish my

Arabic was as good as my Japanese so even if I can't speak fluent english or Japanese, I'd have an

excuse coz I can say " hey, what do ya expect? I HAVE TO JUGGLE AROUND THREE!" <!--QuoteEnd-->

</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're not a native English speaker?
Reply
#9
Japanese

will be my third language.

Anyways, does anyone know the word for "poser"?

My friend and

I are trying to pick up as many slang/crude words as possible!
But existing is all I do.
Reply
#10
you can

say nanchatte...

like nanchatte nihonjin = wannabe Japanese
Reply
#11
<!--QuoteBegin-AlexanderMinoru+Apr 21 2005, 10:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%'

cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AlexanderMinoru @ Apr 21 2005, 10:01

PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> How long have you been learning japanese? Can you speak it

a bit fluently? I learn in a japanese language school too, which is quite okay so far.
The thing with the

japanese being bad teachers, I think that has a lot to do with the japanese way of thinking and their seemingly

total lack of skill to learn foreign languages. (Japan, the isle... the explanation for everything)
I still

can`t believe that they learn english in high school for 6 years and then aren`t even able to communicate in

simple sentences. If you see it that way, the japanese teachers aren`t only bad in teaching Nihongo to

foreigners, they are also bad in teaching english to japanese.
A bad japanese language school probably just

teaches japanese the same way like high school lessons. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div

class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't mean to say the Jpnse are bad teachers, what I meant is

the approach is not effective. It's lecture style. And they don't use other methods like we did when

teaching English to the Jpnse. There are tons more materials for English-language learning.

In small

classes (3~4) that teacher < > student A | teacher < > student B | etc approach is okay, but when

you're in a class of say 10 (I had a class with 13 people before [Image: rolleyes.gif] ) you can't do teacher < > student | < > teacher < >

student! We're just twirling our thumbs.

And the insistence to use formal words is simply stupid

IMO. People would learn at least 2X as fast using the stuff (colloquial) you hear spoken all the

time.

My level is okay, maybe high intermediate? I really think, based on how I studied, that you're

just spinning your wheels if you don't study full time. Even if you can do that for sixmonths it's

better than studying 10 years part time. Anyway I learned more from friends/acquaintances than I did in any of

the classes (4) I had.

About the English for Jpnse students, it's again the approach and the

attitude/philosophy. Since the testing is done for written English with much emphasis on grammar and none (in

most cases, unless this has changed) on the spoken they don't study for that. But you're absolutely

right, it's very embarrassing IMO that the Jpnse study English for 6 years and can't speak (on average)

better than they do, i.e. any for most peeps. In Tokyo it's seem worse if you take into account there are

more foreigners and more exposure to foreign

culture.

がんばってね!
"I fought Sugar Ray (Robinson) so many times, it's a wonder I don't have diabetes" -- Jake LaMotta



[Image: bybyetn.jpg]
Reply
#12
<!--QuoteBegin-bd_sports+Apr 21 2005, 08:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%'

cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (bd_sports @ Apr 21 2005, 08:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td

id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But you're absolutely right, it's very embarrassing IMO that the Jpnse

study English for 6 years and can't speak (on average) better than they do, i.e. any for most peeps. In

Tokyo it's seem worse if you take into account there are more foreigners and more exposure to foreign

culture.
[/quote]
it's no

different in the US though where you have people who've studied Spanish, German or any other language for so

many years in high school and college and still can't speak the language. look at it this way, the best way

for students in Japan to properly learn English is to speak it everyday with a native speaker. the majority of

students in Japan don't have this luxury. it's no different than a Westerner wanting to learn a foreign

language, the best way is to immerse themselves in that country's language by being there.
Reply
#13
<!--QuoteBegin-shimura-ken+Apr 24 2005, 12:37 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center'

width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (shimura-ken @ Apr 24 2005, 12:37

AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-bd_sports+Apr 21 2005, 08:53

PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3'

cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (bd_sports @ Apr 21 2005, 08:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td

id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But you're absolutely right, it's very embarrassing IMO that the Jpnse

study English for 6 years and can't speak (on average) better than they do, i.e. any for most peeps. 

In Tokyo it's seem worse if you take into account there are more foreigners and more exposure to foreign

culture.
[/quote]
it's no different

in the US though where you have people who've studied Spanish, German or any other language for so many

years in high school and college and still can't speak the language. look at it this way, the best way for

students in Japan to properly learn English is to speak it everyday with a native speaker. the majority of

students in Japan don't have this luxury. it's no different than a Westerner wanting to learn a foreign

language, the best way is to immerse themselves in that country's language by being there. <!--QuoteEnd-->

</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know too many people who have

studied those languages that long. My brother studied French for about four and couldn't speak it well, but

once he went to Paris he said stuff started coming back, it had been a while since he studied it.

Most

people in the US study a foreign language at an older age than the Jpsne do English, who start at what? 12 or

13. I think the older a person gets the more difficult it is to "master" a language. And in my mind

the reason the Jpnse don't do better w/ English is because in most schools you are considered a geek by the

popular types if you do &/or ostracized.

Anyway, no country spends as much money for foreign-language

education as the Jpnse do for English. And they are getting ripped off.
"I fought Sugar Ray (Robinson) so many times, it's a wonder I don't have diabetes" -- Jake LaMotta



[Image: bybyetn.jpg]
Reply
#14
Well

my gf's English has improved since she came over to the UK to learn..... (that's when we met...

yippeee).

I suppose I am very patient with her and pleased that I can in some small way help her.....

but she's studied very hard.... some of her course work was pretty tough.... by that I mean it was above O

level standard.... ie what English students sit at 16yrs old...

I think immersion sounds like the best

and quickest route to learn.
Reply
#15
I'm reading this Japanese book, which is a little more difficult than I expected.
When I come across a

kanji that I don't know, I used to kindda guess it and look it up in the dictionary, but now that my

Japanese has deteriorated, I can't even guess the pronounciation.
Is there a way that I can look up a

kanji without having to search the stroke count ?
Is there something that I can buy, technology wise, that

will just highlight the word in the book and look it up for me? I'm so lazy, but i hate searching through

the dictionary while I'm reading because it takes so much time to get through the

book!!!!!
"...it is the kiss of decay and mortality that makes grape juice into Pinot Noir."
Reply
#16
<!--QuoteBegin-Ekondo1154+May 30 2005, 04:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%'

cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ekondo1154 @ May 30 2005, 04:36

PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm reading this Japanese book, which is a little more

difficult than I expected.
When I come across a kanji that I don't know, I used to kindda guess it and

look it up in the dictionary, but now that my Japanese has deteriorated, I can't even guess the

pronounciation.
Is there a way that I can look up a kanji without having to search the stroke count ?
Is

there something that I can buy, technology wise, that will just highlight the word in the book and look it up

for me?  I'm so lazy, but i hate searching through the dictionary while I'm reading because it

takes so much time to get through the book!!!!! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div

class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not sure if this makes sense to you but here you go...

You could

look up a kanji from "bushu", which is like the stem of any given kanji. So if the kanji you are

looking for are, say... 聡 職 聖 聴, then your bushu is mimi 耳. And

if you have a kanji dictionary, you should be able to look it up by looking at the 耳 bushu section... but

then it takes pretty long as well....

What about this? :
<a

href='http://e-japanese-online.com/japanese/powertools/powertools-D001J.html'

target='_blank'>http://e-japanese-online.com/japanese/po...D001J.html</a>
all in japanese.


basically, apparently there's this function where you draw the kanji and get the meaning, pronunciation

etc instantly. It's through IME and microsoft Word... that's all I know..

Or maybe this: <a

href='http://www.yodobashi.com/enjoy/more/i/cat_38974433_10526689_22708524_22974757/21139703.html'

target='_blank'>http://www.yodobashi.com/enjoy/more/i/ca...39703.html</a>

Ganbatte...!
pineapple and peanut butter rock!
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)